interview of Rob Gay Male owner jakes on fourth

Rob Cameron Interview
Rob Cameron I own jakes in fourth in Olympia I’m gay and class status, lower middle class I guess. Caucasian and I’m forty years.
Yup pretty much just your manhunt stats. How long have you been in Olympia?
On and off thirty years pretty much since I was ten. Then I moved away and moved back, moved to L.A. and moved back, moved to Seattle and moved back. Attempted to move to Reno and moved back and then I decided to put my roots down and stay here it’s worked out good so yeah.
Did you come out in Olympia?
I came out in Seattle when I was 19.
Did it seem like Olympia changed for you after returning older and out?
I don’t know, no. It’s been pretty smooth sailing. Yeah it was probably better that I came out in Seattle than Olympia.
Whys that?
Because I wasn’t around my peers. You know kids I grew up with so I didn’t have that to deal with pretty much just my family and new friends that I had made because I was pretty new to Seattle. So that made it easier and then over time everyone found out and everyone was pretty receptive and cool about it. No major speed bumps. I don’t think I really lost too many friends. But that so long ago you know, its 21 years now that’s a long time.
As long as I’ve lived.
Oh yeah a long time ago. It's a lot different than it was back then. I remember one character on TV that was gay it was a police show and I think on television that was the only gay person in the spotlight which was kinda strange.
Do you remember who it was or when?
I don’t know LAPD or something I don’t know. It was a long time ago. I wouldn’t know if I’d know it if I heard it, it’s been so long. But I came out to my grandpa and he was cool about it. So somebody at 75 or 80 how ever old he was back then so he kinda made it easier on me. And then my mom found out that was kinda strange thing but now her and I were pretty good friends but it think that it might have brought us closer.
In some kinda strange way.
Yeah, yeah. And now my brothers are all cool with it. I don’t know if they were at first cause everyone kinda goes their own way and makes their own living and they have their families now and I have my gig and a boyfriend so everyone as we get older we all just kinda except each other. And now shit there’s gay people everywhere and gay people all over TV and all that.
‘ And you own an openly gay bar.
Yeah and I own a gay bar. But back then it didn’t seem that way there were few gay people in town. Probably, a lot more than I noticed though.
How old were you when you came back to Olympia?
Fuck. I came back maybe I could be off but maybe around 24. I think when I was about 24 I came back. That would be about the nineties. It was the first Iraq war I remember that and then I pretty much stayed from then on but maybe go back and fourth a bit but then I got a job at the reef back then. And the old timers told me you need to put down your roots while you’re still young because you’re not going to be young forever. The urge to take off isn’t going to work out for you in the long run. Putting your roots down now is the only way you’re going to accomplish anything as far as business or financial or retirement. And these where old timers telling me that so I kinda took it to heart. So I kept working and set my goals mid twenties is when that happened. All of a sudden I was 35 I didn’t have much just a job and a little money saved. I figured well maybe I’ll get a state job, something with a future maybe retirement, something so I don’t have to work till I’m 80. Benefits, there’s no benefits in the restaurant business. Also a buddy of mine Keith that owned Darby’s I went and talked to him and I said I’m tired of working for people lets open a bar. I think in a week we found this location. It was gutted it was bad, basically a blank canvas when we started and two months straight all day long with a lot of volunteers and we got it done. It took a lot and we opened August 2nd, 2004 and that was the first day of homo-a-go-go so it started with a bang. My boyfriend was like you need to open by august 2nd so that was the date we set and we opened and it’s done pretty well ever since. I think it’s changed Olympia too for the better I think that people are more accepting of gay and transgender people through this bar.
Why do you feel that way?
Well it’s on the main drag. We accept everybody and in turn I think that it opens people’s eyes that we’re not freaks we aren’t circus freaks we are just normal everyday people. And since we’re right here I don’t know how many people drive past here every day but there’s a big rainbow flag in front and everybody knows it s a queer bar. And then we have Jamie lee next door and another hair salon that Noah owns who is a gay man and we joke around and call it the “G block” the gay block. Oh and there’s another hair salon across the street and there’s a gay guy that owns that. And it’s not like these people came after we go there but you know people turn 21 everyday and a lot of people come here. I don’t know where I’m going with this I just think we’ve made a huge difference for the better.
It seems it has to have a different impact than the urban Onion that’s been here a long time. The only other gay bar I’ve seen in a long time.
Yeah a younger vibe here. And awe accept everyone it’s not this cliquish thing, nothing to do with the onion it’s just everyone is welcome here. And sometimes I hear people say there are too many straights here and I look around and say fuck its 70% gay I mean what you are talking about. And I mean it’s like I have a lot of friends who are straight and I’m not going to kick my straight friends out you know and I’m not going to exclude people because they are straight and if I go to a bar I’m not going to be excluded because I’m gay. So as long as everyone feels okay and secure being themselves and do as you please within reason then you know everything is good. You’ve been here before, its one big happy party. You don’t get harassed.
Not s much lately but there can be some jerks coming in so there are problems but it’s not the bar it’s just the people.
I don’t know I think some of that is, well people will say things like that but they wouldn’t tell me about it or tell my staff. I remember this one girls this loud mouth girl was saying that she was harassed by a guy and she was part of the queer alliance of evergreen she was spreading these rumors.
For the record she was a constituent but not a representative of the EQA. I coordinated the Eqa then and now and we supported her but she wasn’t on behalf of the group.
Oh so okay. But she went up there and what she was saying wasn’t exactly true. She started a fight with some guy and then her girlfriends started a fight and started hitting the guy and he pushed her and the guy left and all of a sudden she was saying she was queer bashed here and that wasn’t the case. I watched the video here and in the video I was like those idiots started it he didn’t even do anything wrong. He might have said something wrong but he didn’t start it. It shouldn’t have been that, it wasn’t what they were saying that happened. That’s one situation that kinda got blown out of proportion. Then when I watch it I told her and she was kinda just like I guess you’re right yeah. So she wanted it to just be drama.
Yeah that’s no good. But on the bright side I felt it was amazing to see how the community mobilized around the issue. Even if it was drama everyone stepped in to support jakes in not supporting queer harassment and violence.
Oh yeah that queer takeover was cool. That was way cool.
That was one of the original reasons that we got that started. A lot of folks felt harassed to different levels and the situation with that fight gave us a problem to solve and two weeks later we took over the bar with queer people to make it known we could show up and that it wasn’t okay for people to be homophobic to any degree drama or not.
But what’s funny it came out of a fib.
Perhaps but that’s what we felt and heard so we went for it. You know and all and a lot of folks do get harassed by other patrons and femmes especially, straight men seem to just not to get it and it’s not comfortable.
But I feel comfortable kissing my boyfriend here and hugging my boyfriend here and it never gets to that point where I don’t. And my friends feel comfortable and the regulars feel comfortable. So I don’t hear it. While there are here or when that subject comes up it seems like the people that are close to me that I trust they don’t have that same opinion. I just wonder if it’s just drama.
People have different experiences and levels of comfort.
It’s a bar and liquor is served and not everyone is being 100% politically correct all the time. Sometimes you have to shrug your shoulders I mean there’s liquor served some people are going to get a little bit weird but I don’t sweat the small stuff. I mean if someone is out there grabbing asses we get rid of them.
Yeah I’ve brought out many before myself and got wait staff to help out.
Yeah so we get rid of the assholes.
But it’s those assholes doing it and getting the rumors going a people nervous. But don’t worry it doesn’t give the bar a bad names as much as remind us who we have to always deal with.
I hope not, this place started with good intentions and throughout the whole evolution of it those intentions have stayed intact. So when I hear stuff like that that isn’t true if it is true I’ll correct it , it kinda hurt, not kinda, it hurts my feelings because this is my creation this is my baby and I’m glad that the community supports it and likes it and all that but I take it to heart. So that situation that happened to her and her lieing it’s like a slap in the face. It’s like slapping my kid. If it’s true then that’s one thing and I’ll deal with it but how can I deal with a lie? I don’t want to buy into drama I can count on one hand how many fights we’ve had here and I could take away a few that were just comical stupid. In five years less than five and if you go to another club in tow and there will be five in one night. I mean and the fights I’ve seen I mean one right here it was two lesbians and it wasn’t straight bashing queers I can’t remember any straight people getting in fights or hurting people but that was up the street some guy choking people but that wasn’t here and I don’t think it had anything to do with here. [That was me 3 years ago a guy choked myself and two lesbians on the basis they couldn’t handle a man and if they were going to pretend to be men they ought to fight like one. Nothing to do with jakes though, just a drunk guy we took care of and sent home] But of course if it happens on the block then it becomes this gay bashed at jakes thing even if it’s not the truth. I can’t think of any straight people ever coming in here and beating up a gay person because they would probably get their ass kicked all of us together you know.
Exactly we flock in packs.
Yeah. And another fight was a drag queen and a girl in the hall way and that one was funny but it had to be stopped it was over something so stupid too. The girl who was the instigator we picked her up and threw her out the door that was before we had a smoking area you know. So all and all over the course of the place I’m happy there’s not violence here, not violence you know.
Yeah it’s just harassment and daily life we always have to deal with.
Yeah its alcohol and maybe people taking stuff to heart that maybe ignorance. Some guy hitting on a woman here if he’s not feeling her up you know it’s okay. It’s going to happen any place you go.
The problem is a bunch of rural and young folks coming in turning 21 waiting for that chance to be in a gay space with gay people and they walk in to find a bunch of old toothless straight people.
Yeah during the happy hour it’s because the drinks are cheap. I would rather it be 100% gay but that’s not going to happen. There are just not enough gay people to do it. People start to have kids, they get a DWI on an on there’s tons of reasons they get more into work more focused on their lives not going out. But there’s still people turning 21 and gay people coming out. I’m happy that everyone feels welcome here. And who’s to say and complaints a transgender say a Tranny boy uses the men’s bathroom then somebody comes and complains to me and I’m like well they’re a boy and it becomes like things like that issues like that stupid things like that so its kinda like where do you draw the line where the rules are. People are going to have a problem with stupid shit all the time. If you have 10% straight here your doing wrong, if you have 50% straight here your doing wrong, if its 30% is wrong. Some nights it’s 70% 80% and others it 10%. You can never just tell.
Before jakes came around where were some of the places where you saw gay people getting together, other queer sites of pleasure and community? Have you heard of the rainbow café, thecla, or other bars or the Smithtown café.
Oh I remember that! That was might have been the old Fugi teriyaki. And Ben mores is gay owned don’t know if it’s gay but Michael is gay and he’s out it’s not like I’m outing him. And he’s been there forever. And Darby’s is gay.
How long has gay ownership of the strip been around Olympia?
Uh, Michael has been there forever. Pit’s not gay but he used to own thecla and it was like a gay tolerant bar. And it wasn’t gay but it was extremely gay friendly.
Can you tell me about thecla and the community there or the events there?
Oh it’s been so long. I used to work at the reef and thecla had their beer and wine license but its kinda different then it was back then you had to sell a certain amount of food to serve liquor and so I worked at the reef and I worked the night and I think Sunday was the big night when all the gays would go there and I worked Sunday night for years so I never really got to go there but we would get all the gay people at the reef. The reef was pretty much a gay bar too because of that, we used to get huge amounts of people coming to the reef to get their drink on before going over there for just beer and wine. We had it all and they would come and we shared client customers so that was my experience with it. Just serving the people that went to thecla and they would go back and forth because we had liquor and they didn’t. It was just back and forth and that went on for years, that was pretty cool. They used to have the drag shows there I’m assuming in a Sunday but all those guys would come over to the reef afterwards and I think it was Sean and Richard. Sean is still around, rob is still around Richard is doing a show in Portland they were a big part of it. I remember the gay pride parade when there were literally maybe ten or fifteen people who were marching in it. Really mean that was my first experience with pride.
When was this?
Early 90’s probably. Now it’s huge!
What has the progression been, how have you seen it change?
Um, well it’s just grown every year grown and grown and grown until it’s where it is now. Sean might have been one of the people that marched in the back then. It was just so small. It was little. I just went down there and had to work and ran to work. It would be cool to see a gay Mecca.
It could I think sometimes. One of the first things I learned moving here is that it had the third highest lesbian per capita in a us city. At least 5 years ago or so.
Really wow. Did you check into nanny noodles? Ask Anna about that. That when I was a little kid. Me and my brothers would make fun of it we lived like 3 or four blocks away.
What is nanny noodles, could you tell me more?
Well I don’t know much about it. I know it was right off Kaiser. There was an old nude beach over there and nanny noodles was an old farm house and then there was a gate. The farm house was a lesbian farm house a ton of lesbians lived there it was a communal lesbian home. It looked like big noodles of different colors painted on it. I had three older brothers that would poke fun at tit as we drive by. That’s pretty much what I remember and I’ve since heard about it from a Trans guy that Alan that used to come here and was part of it he's the one who told me about what it was that it was a communal house. This was like 30 years ago so that’s something you might want to check into.
Where there any other places or times that gay people met up or hung out other than thecla and the reef before Jakes?
When I was a kid no.
How about when you were older and out?
No I just went to Seattle.
Why do you think so many gay men go to Seattle rather than meeting people here?
To me it’s a numbers game. Look how many gay people are there, that’s where I went to meet people. It’s huge there.
Would you go to Seattle with groups of Olympia people or meet Olympia folks there?
You know I didn’t really start meeting in Olympia until I started working at the reef. Ti wasn’t prior to that I didn't really know too many. And while I worked there I was still in the closet but it was out in Seattle. Because I was scared I was going to get fired. At the reef you know looking back its idiotic I thought that but I was scared. For everyone I think I really came out when this place opened. Now that I think about it there was a newspaper article on the front page my picture was there and my business partner’s picture was there on the front page of the south sound or the paper and there it was in black and white and pictures of us with the gay bar opening. People I worked with in the past and my neighbors everyone. You know my neighbors came over and said you know we saw you in the paper your opening a bar. Everybody knew and now everyone knows I don’t care. So that was a total outing. And what surprised me too was how many people I knew in town that I had no clue that they were gay I just never knew. In passing it just never came up. People I served for years it just never came up.
That’s really interesting. Olympia is known for a gay city and even tons of gay people eating where you worked it’s interesting to hear a gay mans perspective for that especially.
I think some of those people knew I was gay. I think its different now than even ten years ago. People are just more secure it’s a more open town then even ten years ago. Huh interesting, you know never even think about this stuff but as time goes on its interesting. That’s what’s great about these gay owned businesses opening with jakes and the urban onion hopefully it snow balls and it becomes a gay Mecca and I think jakes has opened the door for a lot of that. People that are now 21 have a place to come. People come from all over here and the greatest compliment is when people come from Seattle to hang out here. It’s like they have a billion bars to chose from and they’ll come up here and they will come here every weekend to hang out it’s a huge compliment. People from Tacoma too like to come here. So we’re doing something right. It’s just in the past ten years it’s changed a lot. Wow. So what else do you want to know [laughs]
Its kinda hard say since you were not engaged with anything since the last few years. Do you remember before the bar if there was any predominate figures or events that happened regarding the queer community or queer people that stand out to you?
Yeah matty and I wish I could remember his last name. He used to wear a skirt and he had an older boyfriends and I was 16 back when I was extremely in the closet and I would see him in a skirt and they’d be around town. Boy they were out. And then the Smithfield café you talked about. Actually I was his roommate he’d be an interesting guy to talk to. He’s been openly gay forever. I was his roommate and his first name escapes me. And then savant was a local drag queen and everyone knew him and he worked at the reef. He was interesting and think he moved to the coast somewhere but he comes here every once in a blue moon. My life’s been pretty much focused on work and then I really got to know the gay community when jakes opened. At the reef a lot of people came but once this place opened it was like flood gates opened. I mean wow.
I could see that. Where did you go to meet guys and other gay people before the flood gates opened?
In Seattle.
That’s just not in town?
Yeah and British Columbia. Well my longest relationships were from here. I met a guy names Philip and him and I were together for years and we met at the reef. Troy who I’m and we’ve been together for god 8 years, maybe going on 9. I met him at the reef and we’re still together. And who else, oh hank I met here. So my three longest all three I met in Olympia. Where I would go to met one night stands was all B.C. Seattle. I was young it was new I didn’t want a relationship. Some here but not like often. And I didn’t go through a huge slut faze. Maybe it’s because I just didn’t realize there was so many gay people here and I didn’t come out until later. The people that were important to me after I was 19 here knew I was gay. And I think as time goes on I don’t know if there will be gay bars. I think bars will just be bars.
What do you think would create that atmosphere, what major changes will happen first?
I think it’s already going in that direction.
Oh yeah? How? Do you think it’s a good thing?
I think it’s an awesome thing, I think when gay marriages pass and stuff like that and society as a whole accepts it more and more. It’s not like there’s a all black bar in Olympia of anything
There’s a lot more to that then a lack of discrimination.
True but there’s not like an al white bar either its almost going to be racism if you’re a homophobe. It’s almost as bad as being racist I hope. And it’s kinda going that way. Look at the miss California she just got annihilated. She was the shoe in to win and preze Hilton asked her what she thought about gay marriage and she said my opinion on that and my family feels that it’s for opposites to get married. She’s such a dumb shit but she said she doesn’t think its right for same sex to get marriage and she lost the Miss America show in. I’ve seen the press always making fun of her and then some nude photos came out with her nude in them and I guess when you sign up you sign off on no there’s never been any nude photos. So she signed all that stuff but they are looking to destroy her and they she came out after that and she’s all pissed and she’s going all I’m going to save marriage for a man and a woman. She’s really going full bore with it. So anyway I’ve seen programs on TV where press is just blasting her and I think that’s cool. SO hopefully it will become like racism where it’s just not acceptable. Its going there you sees that.
I can see a bit what you’re saying. Where you aware of or conscious of separatist movements when you were younger? If so did it play into your development of coming out?
I think I’ve always been aware of that stuff. Is there like a gay icon, like martin Luther king of the gay community? There isn’t. That milk was a movie I came out of there like wow. Kinda make you want to go take over the capital. What I noticed too is that there are more gay officials and people coming out but there is more gay people being elected. Eventually I just think its going to be accepted everywhere. There’s not going to be gay bar straight bar you know marriage is going to be equal as time goes on. Now you can’t always be fired for being gay. I think sexual orientation is now protected and stuff like that.
A lot of states don’t have that and a lot of them are taken away soon after.
Yeah it’s strange but it’s coming around. And like the Black Panther movement and stuff like that does it take that drastic of tactics to make s stupid point?
Well did you ever see lesbian avengers or act up or queer nation?
I’ve heard of act up.
When everyone was dying of aids and the government was refusing to get involved because it was a gay thing the only way we were able to get anywhere was direct militant actions like that. Marches, pink blocks, protests, riots all that. When the people are ignored we have to take care of what we can. Lesbians bought land trusts and protected their own, gay men flooded streets demanded to be recognized by the health industries and whatnot. It may seem like a lot but it can be necessary.
I guess.
Speaking of HIV/Aids action did you see much movement around HIV/Aids issues when you were here?
Well there was a story in the Olympian where AIDS shot up tremendously and that was about a year ago in Thurston County. I know quite a few people actually that have it, that have AIDS. But it’s been around my whole gay life, I don’t know if I know what you’re asking. Hopefully people use safe sex and stuff like that but it’s been around a long time.
Where you worried about it when you came out?
Oh definitely! Totally! Yea yeah yeah! I think over aware. You’re talking 87’ 88’ so they didn’t know as much about it. They thought you could get it from kissing or using a toilet seat or things like that when it first came out so they didn’t realize. After awhile they come to find out its unprotected sex and needle use things like that.
And by the time they had figured all hat out you were coming out and very aware of all the fear of it.
Yeah probably I think it was more known when I came out. I think so. Back then I think it was harder to come out because of that.
How so?
Well I mean who wants to come out considered a victim. It was like if you’re gay you’re going to get AIDS so you know why do it? When I first came out that’s kinda what I thought, what people thought. I started thinking about it I know lots of people that died from it and that’s in Olympia too. In Seattle and in L.A. too. I know quite a few people that have died from AIDS and there are quite a few people in town that have it still but they are living longer it’s not like after a year. I think people know now but there are people that I know that have just had it forever since the early 90’s. I think that maybe the new kids the younger kids don’t realize it’s still out there. I don’t know really though, I just never have a conversation about AIDS you know it just never comes up. I donate and I help as much as I can but as far as statistics I don’t know once in a while I’ll see an article in a news paper or find someone how has it. There are a lot of people with it in Olympia but you know that just being here, yeah it’s sad.